Transcript
00:00
Hey good morning good morning yeah great
00:06
okay let me turn up my volume a little
00:07
bit well awesome I was just saying we
00:10
met originally in shamon a and thank
00:12
you're a super athlete a genius Stanford
00:16
Harvard and done some amazing things and
00:19
especially what's that I said you're too
00:22
kind now officially Mimi is a
00:26
psychologist at Facebook at the Wellness
00:29
Center there and she's a chief medical
00:31
officer and bright side which is a
00:33
really interesting company they do
00:35
affordable and really high quality
00:37
treatment of depression and anxiety
00:39
right in the comfort of your own home so
00:42
interesting background a couple really
00:45
cool things going and in Silicon Valley
00:46
you're right in the heart of San
00:48
Francisco and I guess maybe I'd start
00:51
with our first question what's the most
00:53
common anxiety or fear or or thing that
00:56
you see in Silicon Valley especially
00:58
with you know tech executive types yeah
01:01
interesting I think that I'd have to
01:04
consolidate that into one word which is
01:06
failure people have a big fear of
01:09
failure here I work with a lot of driven
01:13
perfectionist and people who are trying
01:16
to squeeze every last drop out of
01:18
themselves and you know probably could
01:21
gain a lot from reading your book
01:23
because there's there's so much to learn
01:28
from one's motivations around this and
01:30
you know if you take a high-performing
01:32
perfectionistic person and put them in
01:35
you know and give them the wrong tools
01:37
and put them in the wrong environment
01:39
you end up with burnout and if you if
01:42
you put them in the right environment
01:44
and give them the right tools you can
01:45
you can you could draw amazing things
01:47
from it so so I deal with a lot of fear
01:50
failure and I think as a result a lot of
01:53
anxiety stress and burnout okay so so
01:56
yeah that brings up a great point for
01:58
all the entrepreneurs out there and I
02:00
know we've got a couple on there who
02:01
lead teams what'd you say give them the
02:04
right tools and they don't lead to
02:06
burnout so what are the right tools
02:08
what's the you know there's probably no
02:09
one-size-fits-all so but what what do
02:12
you see that works that the
02:13
enables people to use that fear as fuel
02:16
yeah I think part of the key is being
02:20
able to not fall into this mode of being
02:24
an automaton and just just looking at
02:26
extrinsic goals and extrinsic
02:28
expectations but really getting in touch
02:31
with what makes you tick what what is
02:34
creative energy for you what what you
02:37
draw on what gives you energy what part
02:39
of your work really gives you energy
02:40
worrying about but rather than just
02:42
worry about pleasing and succeeding why
02:45
and that's that's the subtitle of the
02:46
book how to find purpose and passion so
02:48
so I get a lot of things in the book to
02:51
find that purpose and the passion and
02:53
get beyond the the automaton of you know
02:56
kind of the flywheel of material goods
02:58
or the flywheel of promotions or that
03:00
sort of thing so how do you how do you
03:02
suggest people find a purpose and
03:05
passion within the context of today
03:08
we're all stuck at home so we can't run
03:10
you know meeting to meeting meeting this
03:12
person you know finding out this
03:15
technology or whatever so where's the
03:17
context of being being at home and
03:20
isolated how can we find purpose and
03:22
passion baby yeah well I think this
03:25
being at home offers a tremendous silver
03:28
lining in opportunity I know I know
03:31
there's a lot of fear that that that
03:33
while we're dealing with sort of
03:34
first-order needs now health and and
03:37
food and shelter and everything that
03:39
there are fears that this will lead to a
03:40
big mental health crisis and I I think
03:43
there is there is potential for for for
03:45
mental health trauma to come from this
03:48
period of social isolation certainly but
03:51
I think the silver lining in it may be
03:54
that we've been in this mode up until
03:56
now of just like more more and more you
03:59
know more stimulation more more dopamine
04:02
more oxytocin just just in a feast of
04:05
dopamine really up until now and that
04:08
this period of slowing down and taking
04:11
stock not being is distracted by the you
04:15
know the merry-go-round that we've all
04:17
been on it gives us an opportunity to
04:19
actually reconnect with what we might be
04:21
most interested in what we might what
04:24
might really make us tick and actually
04:26
the opportunity to can
04:27
dots that that haven't been connected in
04:30
a while so some creative creative energy
04:32
and passion probably most of us have
04:35
been at home in the last couple weeks
04:36
have done an activity we haven't done
04:38
enough in many years like play musical
04:40
instrument or bake you know bake cookies
04:43
or do something that you know has has
04:45
kind of gotten lost in the busyness of
04:47
life and so I do think there's a silver
04:49
lining to reconnect with with those
04:50
things well one of the things I've been
04:52
talking is as I interview great people
04:55
like yourself is is that we should get
04:57
in a routine so I have a very strict
05:00
morning routine do every morning and
05:01
takes me about an hour and when I own
05:04
the morning I own the rest of the day
05:05
right I already feel like by the time
05:08
8:30 rolls around I got a lot of
05:09
conflict and got some things done that
05:11
routine has definitely helped me to
05:14
create a sense of normalcy I'm alone in
05:17
Boston Kristen and the kids are in
05:19
Gemini so I'm separated we FaceTime a
05:22
couple of times a day what what other
05:24
stresses have you seen you know for
05:27
people or let me rephrase that for
05:29
people who want to create a playbook of
05:31
maybe finding their purpose now finding
05:34
what their passion is so they can come
05:37
out of this not just survive it but but
05:39
thrive and come out on the other side
05:41
saying hey I've got a plan you know the
05:43
economy is going to pick back up I'm
05:45
finally going to quit my job I'm finally
05:48
going to do that startup I'm finally
05:49
gonna bike across America I'm finally
05:52
gonna write the book how do you get them
05:54
off of that sort of procrastination
05:56
which is a fear response and then make
05:58
delivery how do you get them off of that
06:00
and help them write a playbook now
06:02
during during tough times that that's
06:04
gonna make them feel like they're
06:05
accomplishing something yeah well I
06:08
think the first step of that is to is to
06:11
slow down and kind of even though the
06:14
sounds were horrible but learn to live
06:15
without in the way that we were we were
06:17
just discussing so slow down and kind of
06:19
do some taking stock of what's important
06:22
and then with that you know I think can
06:26
come some real creative energy and an
06:28
ability to think in a slower more
06:32
connected way than maybe we've been able
06:34
to when were when we're running from one
06:36
thing to the next and focus on very
06:38
short-term goals I mean one of the one
06:40
of the points that's been made
06:41
by many people other than myself is just
06:44
that with with current financial markets
06:47
companies are so forced into short term
06:51
short term results short term short term
06:56
goals and I think what this does is it
06:58
gives us some opportunity to think in a
07:01
more long-term way about what are the
07:04
changes we're going to be facing nobody
07:06
really knows now there's a tremendous
07:07
amount of uncertainty about what the
07:09
future holds but it gives us some
07:11
opportunity to think instead about what
07:12
are we doing this quarter to what do we
07:15
want to do over the next 18 months over
07:17
the next five years and how might the
07:20
world change as a result of this and I
07:21
think what we'll see come out of this
07:23
among the people who give it a chance as
07:25
a tremendous amount of creative energy
07:26
mmm an opportunity you know maybe to
07:29
treat the planet differently or an
07:31
opportunity to treat our workday
07:32
differently or our relationships
07:34
differently but I love the fact about
07:37
creative energy and with the uncertainty
07:40
because it's it's really one of the
07:42
other from a neuroscience perspective
07:44
our brain is a prediction engine as a
07:46
lot of people heard me say when we can't
07:49
predict the outcome of a current event
07:53
like right now we can't predict what's
07:55
going to happen with coronavirus we
07:57
produce all this free energy that
07:58
manifests itself in a feeling of fear
08:01
and this feeling of stress to a lot of
08:03
people what you're saying on the other
08:05
hand which is where creativity lives if
08:07
you can if you can be in this scenario
08:10
not succumb to the things you can't
08:12
control like we can't control how
08:14
quickly it spreads we can't control you
08:17
know what the governor does about it
08:18
what the president does about any of
08:20
that if we can let go of that and we can
08:23
control we control and then say okay I'm
08:26
going to start being curious about where
08:28
the opportunity lies here I'm going to
08:30
ask the right question a lot of people
08:32
are afraid just to ask why you know just
08:35
just to ask that key question but that's
08:37
really where creativity lives so how do
08:39
you how do you help foster that that
08:41
sense of creativity or that curiosity
08:43
yeah that's right and I'm often quoted
08:46
as talking about our brains as
08:48
prediction engines - or our brains spend
08:51
an enormous amount of time just sort of
08:53
humming along we don't realize it
08:54
thinking
08:55
about what's happened to us in the past
08:57
and then how does that influence what's
08:59
coming next and we're all in this very
09:01
novel situation right now where we don't
09:03
necessarily have the data to predict
09:05
what's going to happen next and that
09:06
easily translates into a lot of fear
09:09
anxiety discomfort it's very helpful
09:12
right now when I'm working with clients
09:14
to just have them name the emotion
09:16
they're feeling in any given moment if
09:18
they can just sit and say okay what is
09:20
it I'm feeling right now that in itself
09:22
can be very freeing because we all have
09:25
a lot of any sort of random kinetic
09:29
energy going on in our brains right now
09:31
trying to predict what's next given that
09:33
we don't we don't have the data set to
09:35
necessarily know know what's next one of
09:38
the things we're trying to do at bright
09:40
side is you know we designed bright side
09:42
because we have had a mental health
09:44
epidemic on our hands for some years now
09:47
and people don't really have a great
09:50
place to go when they're feeling this
09:52
kind of anxiety or even depression and
09:54
so our goal with Brightside was really
09:56
to design an affordable go to place
09:59
where people could get expert care in
10:00
less than 48 hours really from the
10:02
comfort of their own couch and they can
10:04
get expert consultation with a
10:05
psychiatrist or therapist to get access
10:09
to some of these tools and you know and
10:11
address the problems they may be feeling
10:13
now and you know freeing up that energy
10:15
for creative project projects not being
10:17
sort of ruled by the anxiety and the
10:19
fear is really what we wear we need to
10:21
get people right now and it's amazing
10:23
maybe what you're talking about I tell
10:26
people with the book I'm like the the
10:29
car mechanic just because my personal
10:31
life I went from from driving the in the
10:33
little Volkswagen bugs all of a sudden
10:35
driving a Ferrari after that near-death
10:36
experience so I want to figure out how
10:39
the brain works so I understand it and I
10:42
love hearing a manifestation of use of
10:45
some of the the neuroscience so what you
10:49
said about naming the the feelings that
10:53
you're feeling
10:53
most people think well you know
10:55
especially a lot of type-a hard-charging
10:58
say oh I don't need to name my feelings
11:01
right that touchy-feely stuff but
11:03
science perspective when we were talking
11:05
about the brain being a prediction
11:06
engine the brain falls back
11:09
things in our history that were useful
11:11
let's go of everything else what it was
11:13
useful we store in our subconscious
11:16
databases prior beliefs and those prior
11:18
beliefs are all driven by memories that
11:22
that we've had experienced either real
11:24
or imagined that's why visualization
11:26
works but when you make a memory you
11:29
form two memories one is a episodic or a
11:32
semantic memory which are just the facts
11:33
the other is an emotional memory they're
11:36
stored in two different places but the
11:38
key thing is it's easier for your brain
11:41
to store it if you name it and recognize
11:44
it so it can go with something else and
11:46
so the point that Mimi is making right
11:47
now about being able to name an emotion
11:51
isn't just it you know it's not just a
11:53
touchy-feely idea it's how our brain
11:55
works so it allows it to classify that
11:57
emotion with other emotions similar to
11:59
it so so that's a great tip and it's all
12:03
you know like like all of your work
12:05
based on neuroscience and once you
12:07
understand how it works it becomes
12:09
really powerful so that's definitely
12:12
helpful stuff being creative looking at
12:15
the outcome controlling what you can
12:16
control how about some fun stuff power
12:19
people dating now right where we're
12:21
locked in place and and I know you've
12:23
got a soft spot in your mind because you
12:26
have you have all the code word and I
12:28
think back to we just got a new puppy in
12:30
I think back to you know how breeders
12:34
describe puppies as energetic meaning
12:36
like they're tearing everything apart
12:37
and chewing off stuff so sort of code
12:39
words and I know you've seen that with
12:41
some of your online dating and some
12:43
interesting stuff yeah I know I'm
12:47
working on a book right now about about
12:49
dating and really actually sort of what
12:52
we can extract from texts and dating and
12:55
because this hasn't been this has been
12:57
interesting to me for some time I've
12:59
worked in the digital health space her
13:01
for a while as Patrick mentioned I'm a
13:02
psychiatrist and one of the things
13:06
that's been interesting in the digital
13:07
health world is what can we learn from a
13:10
person's text word pairings grammar all
13:12
kinds of things there are interesting
13:14
elements in the text they can reveal
13:16
things about people's personalities and
13:18
trades
13:20
and even even we can even identify
13:22
mental illness sometimes through through
13:24
text messaging and so we are now in a
13:30
world where dating is happening not just
13:33
it's not just the the online part of
13:37
dating is not just a sort of prequel to
13:39
you know meeting hooking up forming
13:43
relationships but now I think early
13:45
phases of dating are really happening
13:47
exclusively online people are texting a
13:49
lot longer than they were before they're
13:51
having Xoom dates or zoom interviews or
13:54
whatever you want to call it but they're
13:55
they're hanging out online they're
13:57
watching Netflix movies together as a
13:59
date and separately but together and so
14:03
I think it kind of underscores the
14:08
importance of looking at communication
14:10
of online communication what can we
14:12
derive from it what can we learn about
14:13
the person in those early phases of
14:15
dating and how can we make the right
14:17
choices as we're navigating this very
14:20
complex world of germs and dating and
14:25
you know it's sort of taking things to a
14:26
new level of like do I want to if I'm
14:31
going to contract a deadly virus do I
14:32
want to get it from a gas pump or
14:34
through a kiss I'm not sure so you know
14:42
I think I think people are still
14:44
figuring it out right now we're what
14:45
week 3 into this and so I think people
14:48
are figuring out but I think texting and
14:50
the cues one can derive from texting and
14:53
video are becoming more essential so so
14:57
give us some interpretation maybe
15:01
because I know people are sitting there
15:02
at home saying like what what should I
15:04
look out for and I'm just gonna take the
15:09
phone away yeah well you gotta stay
15:12
tuned for my book but I mean everything
15:13
from from the cadence of text to the
15:16
word choice of text to you know how many
15:19
personal pronouns is the person using is
15:21
that a sign of is that a sign of
15:23
narcissism or what does the what does
15:30
the the exchange look like in
15:34
terms of sort of number of words and and
15:38
the kinds of words that are included in
15:41
the text one can one can draw a lot of
15:42
important conclusions from this we've
15:44
done studies at a couple of the
15:46
companies where I've worked with to sort
15:48
of see if we can identify a depression
15:49
for instance in a text message and there
15:52
are key signs to what does a depressed
15:55
person sound like when they're writing
15:56
and that can be very very helpful when
16:00
you're when you're chatting with
16:02
somebody you know many of these many of
16:04
these new companies are doing online
16:06
therapy so so the therapist may be
16:08
texting with their client instead of
16:10
instead of meeting with them face to
16:12
face and cute key word pairings can can
16:15
identify risk and can also indicate you
16:18
know whether the person might be in a
16:19
more severe depressive state and so
16:21
these things are actually quite helpful
16:23
in the clinical sense but they might
16:25
also be helpful socially as you're
16:28
trying to get to know somebody and
16:29
understand a little bit more about them
16:31
what their emotional landscape is like
16:32
and so so you're gonna be putting out a
16:36
book that gives them kind of a playbook
16:38
they hand exactly in the works yeah and
16:49
where should people follow you so people
16:51
want to hear more about your research
16:52
keep up with you was it dr. Wen's berg
17:10
make sure you follow me at the fear guru
17:13
so click follow now if you haven't
17:15
already because we've got more great
17:16
content like this coming up we'll
17:18
definitely bring dr. winds berg back
17:20
she's awesome and this was really a fun
17:22
way to start our morning
17:24
yeah and I'll just leave you guys with
17:26
if there are needs for depression and
17:28
anxiety among you or your loved ones
17:30
during this time if you log on to bright
17:32
side calm you can get connected with
17:34
professional within 48 hours and you
17:37
know take an assessment and see where
17:39
you stand so if you're worried about any
17:41
anybody in your life right now who may
17:43
be struggling and these are hard times
17:44
just go to bright side and we'll take
17:46
care of you
17:48
I mean and can you sing just to follow
17:50
up on that from a start-up perspective
17:53
Mimi have you seen a big uptick with all
17:55
this big uptick big uptick yeah I'm both
17:58
both both as a within our company and
18:01
then also as a as a you know as a
18:03
professional I've just been very very
18:04
busy in these times you know it's
18:06
definitely I think we are all a hundred
18:08
percent of us struggling with an
18:09
adjustment disorder to this new new
18:11
landscape right now and I think for
18:13
anybody who has any underlying anxiety
18:14
it's tough time so so you want to make
18:17
sure we were available and delivering
18:19
care to people right now and again low
18:23
cost affordable way to get care without
18:25
the hassle of navigating the healthcare
18:27
system that's great okay well dr. Mimi
18:31
Twinsburg thanks so much can't wait to
18:32
see again hopefully soon in person yeah
18:35
a mountain adventure yeah definitely
18:40
look forward to it okay take care fabric
18:41
thanks Mona take care