Transcript
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maybe the I'll give you the girl so see
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those alive it death they we're alive so
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hang it go let me just double-check on
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the on Facebook page to be popping up
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here shortly I think we are I think
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we're good to go okay all right Lou have
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at it
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alright well welcome everybody my name
00:41
is Lou Maloney and I was sitting here
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today I'm also joined with Patrick J
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Sweeney is the author of fear is fuel
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new book you got to go out there and
00:49
check it out and joining the two of us
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here is dr. Earl Miller he's the
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professor professor in the department of
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brain and cognitive scientists at MIT
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runs a mill lab at the back our
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Institute PhD in psychology neuroscience
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is one of the top five most cited papers
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in neuroscience so these two are the
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professionals little bit outside of my
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world a little bit but I love it because
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I'm learning something new each and
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every day so gentlemen welcome dr. Milot
01:15
thanks for joining us thank you please
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call me Earl
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I will okay this is in this chapter here
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chapter 9 of the book talked a lot about
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volitional control so I'm just going to
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start off and let you get into it what
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exactly it is how do you study it
01:30
discovery well what is volitional
01:33
control evolution what volition isn't it
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isn't dumb just read isn't reacting to
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the environment it isn't just reacting
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to a stimulus like if I throw a rock at
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your head you're gonna duck out of the
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way if you touch something hot we're
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going to draw your hand that's not
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pollution Lincoln is decision-making not
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reacting now you study it by look by
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looking at what's called context
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dependent behavior so a great example
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that is a you act differently whether
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you're listening to a lecture in a
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lecture hall or a Fenway watching
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watching the red sauce you're going to
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behave differently behave differently in
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a fancy restaurant versus a subway
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or whatever ass who joined no uh it
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haven't made terms you change your
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behavior changes do you act
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appropriately for the for the
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circumstance at hand and that's where
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evolution comes in our ability to adapt
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our behavior to what we think is
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appropriate and will get us to our goals
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in a given situation so when you say
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well when you're when you're talking
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about volitional control is that choice
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what about a choice to overcome things
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and and we can use the loo as an example
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you said throw a rock at his head he's
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had a lot he's a lot of guys throw rocks
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at his head they happen to be wrapped in
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leather
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but he's willingly doing something that
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goes completely against what you're you
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know your natural instinct and and
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everything that about survival and that
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the amygdala is telling you don't stand
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in front of that that rock that's
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hurling at your head
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so how does volition come in to do you
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know maybe overriding or overcoming the
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amygdala the limbic system the area
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where fuel I mean sorry we're fear rest
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for us and where fear starts yeah
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exactly I mean that's an example this
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context dependent behaviors that um you
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uh change what you do you can override
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you can these instinctual reactions if
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you if you know you're have a different
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idea different goal what if you're
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though you're playing baseball things
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that people are supposed to be throwing
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hard things at your head you can know
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not to react to that and and and stand
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stand and cat catch the rock you uh
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change your behavior you you can
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suppress these reflexive reactions to if
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the suppression of the reaction is
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appropriate for the task at hand so the
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way to think about it is that um these
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emotions these reactions come from our
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very primitive parts of our brain
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so-called reptile brains we have a thing
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called an amygdala which you know about
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you thought about extensively in your
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book that produces these kind of
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emotional reactions like fear but then
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what the higher animals like humans have
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evolved is something called the cerebral
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cortex and the cerebral cortex is the
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top part of your brain with all the
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folds of the lines and stuff like that
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and that's the more advanced part of
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your brain and the way to think about
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your cortex your cerebral cortex it's
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sort of an add-on to your
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primitive bring your premium rain
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evolved through these very simple things
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like react to the environment
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react emotionally reflexively and then
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your cortex is an add-on which allows
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you to do things like change across back
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and super if you may have a moment of
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fear but your your cortex tells you oh
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it's ok I don't need to be scared or I
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can go into a dangerous situation if I
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think I need to to achieve something so
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a lot of times in this book Patrick he
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talks about prior beliefs and I'm just
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curious as far as you talk about
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creating solutions is that kind of what
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we have to do if to go back to some of
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the prior beliefs and create new
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solutions when we face fear and so many
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situations you're talking about oh yeah
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I mean a lot of our behavior based on
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these uh our experiences biasing some of
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our experiences and it helps to revisit
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those experiences i reworked them to
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change your priors if you will to change
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change your behavior remind yourself of
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what's important you know that's the
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funny thing about um memory in the brain
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is you remember things and then every
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time you think about those number bring
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those memories to recall them think
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about them consciously you don't just
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like recall it then put it back where it
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was before you recall it and as you
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think about it you change those memories
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the memories going through what's called
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a labile or plastic State and when you
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think about those old memories you
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rework them a little bit and change them
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and then when you put them away they're
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stored in this changed form so you could
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literally change your past memories and
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your past memories will allow you to
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change your future behavior by changing
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your best memories
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that's pretty trippy to think about
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that's one of the things that we talked
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about is going back to your fear front
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we're in those traumas you had as a
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child and then you're exactly right that
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reworking the memory and the emotional
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memory that's associated with that
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semantic memory right we have to -
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memories and one we can change the other
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we can't if I'm not mistaken but we can
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change the emotional part and then
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you're saying that influence is our
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future it might be an interesting time
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to talk about how our subconscious
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decision-making starts to come into play
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because you know there's a fairly robust
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debate I think that's still going on
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within neuroscience about
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a study that that was done down in Texas
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a while ago about free will and do we
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actually make decisions or is it all
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subconsciously happening and then we
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justify it with our biases is there any
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update and any you know anything there
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in terms of kind of the free will debate
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and and you know how volition comes into
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that well yeah I mean you would be
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amazed at how much of your
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decision-making takes place really on
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the unconscious level and the reason is
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a very simple reason for that year our
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conscious minds are very limited in
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capacity humans are very single-minded
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we think about one or two things at any
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one time and because his limited
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capacity because we aren't our conscious
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minds are so narrow and mad that ballet
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is in sharp contrast to our long-term we
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can store a lifetime of memories and
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experiences in our head in a latent
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long-term memory format but for some
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reason you only think about one or two
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things at the same time so a lot of like
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even everyday decisions they depend take
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weighing so many factors simultaneously
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that it's beyond the capacity of your
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conscious mind so a lot of them
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decision-making gets done at the level
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of unconsciousness and then it gets
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reported to your mind conscious Minds
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like a gut feeling so for an example
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that either you guys play poker you know
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sure okay for example decision-making in
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poker is do I call do I raise you up do
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I fold it's all based this gut feeling
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of what the person in front of you ask
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and there's some conscious decision
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making going on there and what you think
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their hand is versus your hand but a lot
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of it are all these like multitude of
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factors past experiences your own biases
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towards how much risk risk-averse you
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are oh there's so many factors that
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they're too much fear conscious mind in
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the process it gets processed on an
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unconscious level where all these things
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can sort of be weighed against one
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another and some giant statistical table
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you have in your unconscious brain and
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then it gets reported to your brain as a
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as a gut feeling of what to do how does
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this is really good for while talking
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about consciousness having conversations
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like we're having consciousness is good
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for that it's also good for making plans
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before you actually go out and do
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something but a lot of our day to day
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walking around decision-making is taking
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place on an unconscious level and
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this is sort of like along for the ride
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it's kind of after the fact so the worst
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part of this too in this chapter I
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wanted to ask you about his Patrick you
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talked about Cato an awful lot in this
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and there's three rules to live by and
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I'm wondering how they relate or connect
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a volition or controlling your life they
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prepare for the worst
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love your neighbor and imagine your
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death how does it go the connective ol
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issue of the volition and controlling
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your life those three philosophies we
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connect that doehner overcoming fear
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because I'm so you have these primitive
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parts of the brain that produced these
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are flexible reactions like I'm gonna
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feel afraid but you know you have this
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more complex more advanced cortex
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especially your prefrontal cortex which
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is behind your form the most advanced
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part of your brain it can counter man
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these fears fear actions like you feel
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fear that you're breaking say oh it's
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okay because I know I have this
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additional information I think it's okay
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or maybe there's a need to be courageous
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well this the same same thing happens
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with them is not just like happening
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after the fact you have an emotional
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reaction then you're your advanced brain
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says wait slow down a minute
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you can also preload your brain to
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prepare for fearful situations to load
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kaitos principles in your brain remind
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yourself what fun things humans are
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really really good at above every other
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animal is we're really good at
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projecting ourselves into the future we
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can think about what's gonna happen five
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ten fifteen whole life lifetime ahead of
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us it more most animals are very
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short-sighted when it comes to future
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plans so we can preload these principles
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these guidelines these things that can
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help us overcome fear when the fear
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comes along and channel it in there in
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the right direction so one of the things
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that's interesting about channeling in
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the right direction is we've had a lot
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of people who say about kids
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particularly you know if you're feeling
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upset if you're feeling strange and one
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of the things we talk about in the
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chapters well go to your safe place well
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try and make you happy and we'll make
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everything okay for you and and what
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that isn't doing with with that that
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robs them of is the chance to learn how
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to develop these defense and isms and
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that sort of thing how does how does a
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developing brain you know sort of fit
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into
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what you're talking about are all well
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I'm not a child psychologist or even a
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clinical psychologist that matter but I
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would think that dealing with them the
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situation is better than better than
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avoiding it now the thing like your
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brain your brain is very very plastic
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it's especially plastic I mean you could
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knit changes all the time so you think
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about certain things you think about
11:24
certain ways those pathways those
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networks in your brain that are
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activated when you're thinking a certain
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way they get strengthened and if you
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avoid certain thoughts the pathways then
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the connections in your brain that
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correspond to those thoughts that you
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don't think about for a long time
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they weaken so your brain literally it
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literally changes itself by thicket so
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practicing a certain mode thought
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practicing dealing with situations
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practicing dealing with difficult
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situation having that kind of practice
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well strengthen those pathways in the
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brain that deal with them successfully
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so in the future when you when you're
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out in the real world and something
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happens you need to deal with your brain
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is more people more prepared more you've
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done the pre-processing and
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strengthening needing to deal with those
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situations and that's I'm sorry Luke go
12:09
ahead no no that that's the one of the
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things that I bring to light in the book
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almost everybody at some point or
12:16
another has heard about the amygdala the
12:18
the fear center it handles the fight
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flight or freeze and we all know that
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especially at this point in the book but
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one thing that people haven't heard of
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is the sub genome anterior cingulate
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cortex or the SG ACC because that's the
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courage Center maybe it's because it's
12:32
too tough to say what doubt but the SG
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ACC that does we don't get that fully
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developed until the prefrontal cortex is
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developed correct and so it's not till
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our 20s that we really have a courage
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Center
12:45
that's correct well we don't our brain
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isn't fully developed the anterior
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prefrontal cortex executive parts of
12:51
your brain saying that don't fully
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develop until you're about your early to
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mid mid 20s which I think it's a pretty
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good reason to raise the driving age to
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like 25 but means I survive my
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adolescence I gotta tell you yeah your
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brain isn't fully developing into that
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age so you don't have that ability to
13:12
not have a just act based on a reflexive
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emotional responses so for example a
13:18
good example of this is so when we talk
13:20
about volition we're talking about
13:21
decision making deliberate action
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choosing on it choosing among
13:24
alternative pathways how to act in a
13:27
given situation that's what your your
13:29
frontal cortex does and that's what
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develops lasts in the human brain when
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you're in your 20s when you don't have
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that you become a creature that just
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just reacts to the environment in an
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often inappropriate way so for example
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people with damage to their prefrontal
13:43
cortex to get it up they have a certain
13:45
syndrome called stimulus bound behavior
13:47
where they react to things reflexively
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they can't stop themselves so you won't
13:52
you maybe you walk into a room or a
13:54
person with this brain damage in their
13:56
frontal cortex is sitting at a table and
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you're drinking a cup of coffee or
13:59
something and you sit it down and set it
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on the table with a cup of coffee and
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the person will just reach over and grab
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the coffee and start drinking no they do
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that because cup drink it's the
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reflexive reaction it's a natural
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Association when you see a cup you drink
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it but having a more developed advanced
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part of your brain you know that based
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on the rules of our society and that's
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what your frontal cortex does it absorbs
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all the rules of our societies know
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what's appropriate what's inappropriate
14:25
having a fully developed part of this
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brain which again doesn't develop until
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mid-20s
14:30
you know what's appropriate and safe and
14:33
a good course of action in a given
14:36
situation we have damaged that part of
14:38
the brain that's all gone all those
14:40
filters also in admissions are gone and
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you just become a creature just react to
14:44
the environment now I'm not saying that
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younger adolescents are like these
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brain-damaged patients but there's so
14:56
yeah I was gonna jump in and ask you
14:58
because you start talking about
14:58
preparing for the worst sometimes and
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that can help you and Patrick and I have
15:02
had this discussion about be myself like
15:04
in a career I was at a point in my
15:05
career where things weren't going well
15:08
and I finally just sort of gave up and
15:09
said worst thing that could happen is
15:10
this is my last year playing pro ball my
15:12
life's gonna be okay and that freedom
15:14
knowing that saying that out loud
15:15
allowed me to go play at a level that in
15:18
the minor leagues got me to the big
15:19
leagues on the flip side of that and I
15:21
want to know if there's a difference
15:22
between these two things this Patrick
15:24
and I have talked about this as well
15:26
if a manager hits me on the way up to
15:28
the plate and says hey whatever you do
15:29
don't strikeout and that's my thumb
15:31
that's the worst case scenario I'm gonna
15:33
strike out like you know it's like I
15:35
can't imagine the worst case because a
15:37
lot of times the pitching coach like hey
15:39
don't walk this guy whatever you do
15:40
you're probably gonna walk this guy is
15:42
there a difference between letting the
15:44
negative control you and almost creating
15:46
the action well once a more long-term
15:49
the deliberative process where you
15:51
prepare yourself well in advance knowing
15:53
you can have these yet - if you imagine
15:55
the worst-case scenario in the future it
15:58
gives you some peace now knowing that
16:00
even that's not so bad but in the heat
16:02
of the moment that's kind of a different
16:03
situation you just act made your Miglia
16:05
you don't have the time and to really
16:09
deliberately overcome and gradually
16:11
suppress those those negative thoughts
16:13
in he at the moment it's hard to gain
16:16
control thing especially when you're a
16:17
highly charged situation that you're
16:18
stepping up to the plate at Fenway so
16:21
that's a little um it takes time and
16:22
practice to like prepare your mind for
16:25
the worse and channel things in the
16:26
right direction when the time comes in
16:28
the heat of the moment it's often more
16:30
difficult in in so so how do you make it
16:33
easier in the heat of the moment then
16:36
practice that yes you just got to
16:38
practice your brain will get better and
16:39
better if you keep channeling your
16:42
thoughts a lot along this and say my
16:43
practice calming yourself you know and
16:46
it's all these like things you know a
16:48
lot of our brains reactions to emotions
16:50
often feed off of our bodies like our
16:52
heart starts racing sweating and then
16:54
you bring in this positive feedback loop
16:56
with your brain where you start
16:57
panicking more and more because your
16:59
body's telling you something's wrong and
17:00
something must be wrong though my god
17:02
you know then it's worse worse so you
17:04
know practicing things like you know
17:07
deep breathing exercises practicing
17:09
calming your body can help a long way to
17:11
break that positive feedback loop with
17:13
your brain maybe it makes perfect sense
17:16
so now well you're famous for your study
17:20
on multitasking yeah I know you thought
17:22
I was gonna go with bass playing but no
17:25
asking and and you've got some really
17:28
interesting things because my wife my
17:32
kids half the employees I had when
17:36
I was running my tech companies would
17:38
say no no I'm really good at
17:39
multitasking
17:40
so yeah everybody that with that
17:43
everyone everything so good at
17:45
multitasking no one is good at
17:47
multitasking no you see the thing about
17:50
the weird thing about your conscious
17:52
mind is it's very very limited in
17:54
capacity you really are like our
17:56
thoughts are very very narrow and I can
17:58
think about one or two thoughts
17:59
simultaneously now a good example this
18:02
is perception like right now you all you
18:05
guys everybody out there passive as a
18:07
feeling that the way their brain works
18:10
the way they see things is like their
18:11
brain is like a video camera the
18:12
wide-angle lens is everything that's in
18:14
front of you
18:15
some actually what's going on what's
18:17
going on your eye is moving around four
18:20
times a second taking in little bits of
18:22
the world in little tiny narrow little
18:24
snapshots then your brain pieces again
18:27
of these snapshots into the solution
18:29
that we're seeing everything that's in
18:30
front of us and I can show you
18:31
demonstrate you can see demonstrations
18:33
at this timeline you can see flip
18:35
between two pictures where something
18:37
huge like a tree is appearing and
18:39
disappearing and people will take
18:40
minutes to find it and if you really see
18:42
what everything is in front of you you
18:44
should find it right away instead you
18:46
don't or or you you are listeners out
18:48
there or viewers um do Google search on
18:52
the gorilla test remember yeah yeah I
18:56
mean things happen you're just
18:58
completely unaware of because our brains
19:00
our conscious mind is so narrow we have
19:03
as illusion that it's wide so when you
19:05
think you're multitasking what you're
19:07
actually doing is task switching your
19:10
brain is switching back and forth
19:11
between the two tasks or two or three or
19:13
whatever tasks alternate and alternating
19:16
it's doing it very very quickly but your
19:18
brain papers this over into making you
19:20
think you're doing more than one thing
19:22
at once so a big deal what's the problem
19:24
with that the problem with that is it
19:26
takes time your brain to reconfigure it
19:28
takes like a second or more for the
19:30
circuits in your brain to reconfigure
19:32
from one task to another and while it's
19:35
reconfiguring what's going on is your
19:36
brain is the first of all you switch
19:38
from one task to another you have to
19:39
backtrack a little bit
19:40
you have to UM then err correct figure
19:42
out where you were and it happens very
19:44
quickly but it takes time
19:47
and that means all this critical time
19:49
you could be spent thinking focusing on
19:51
the job at hand getting more done your
19:53
spaying the time switching that's just a
19:56
waste waste of productivity so how do
19:59
you approach that in your life is it
20:00
just one thing at a time that's yes try
20:04
to model tasks I yeah and that's the
20:06
thing about um about multitasking the
20:08
reason it's a it's a kind of sounds a
20:11
good paradox that something we're so bad
20:12
at we all want to do well if it's so if
20:15
we're so bad at it why do you want to do
20:17
it so much even I want to do it
20:18
everybody wants and the reason is
20:21
because our brains evolved in a
20:22
different environment our brains evolved
20:24
in an environment that had much less
20:25
information and any little information
20:28
might be very very important like a
20:30
rustling in the bushes might mean it
20:32
Tigers about to leap out at you so our
20:34
brains evolved the this craving for new
20:37
information because new information
20:38
might be it's life or death
20:40
so we our brains evolved this craving
20:42
for new information but they also
20:43
evolved in a world where there's less
20:45
information so we also evolved this
20:47
narrow-mindedness
20:48
but now in the modern world these two
20:50
things together their brain didn't
20:53
evolve the deal with this incredible
20:55
thirst for new information and so much
20:57
information available now it just
20:58
becomes a distraction so what do you do
21:01
you can't you can't just overcome this
21:03
this um tendency to LA to multitask just
21:06
by force of will it's just too hard to
21:08
overcome that thirst for knowledge so
21:10
you got a plan ahead say I'm gonna set a
21:12
timer and I'm gonna do nothing but this
21:15
one work on this one project for the
21:18
next 20 minutes half an hour and then I
21:21
can check my email we move this schedule
21:24
that if they practice doing that your
21:25
brain being like a muscle the more you
21:27
practice that the better you get at the
21:28
more natural be so schedule threat carve
21:32
out times the model model tasks then let
21:34
yourself check the email or check
21:35
YouTube or whatever the other thing you
21:38
do is remove distractions a lot of
21:40
people have these workstations set up
21:41
where they have multiple screens usually
21:44
a one or two of those screens have work
21:46
on and the rest are like you know cat
21:47
videos on YouTube or Facebook or whatnot
21:49
you get realize extra screen remove the
21:52
distraction and if it's not there you
21:54
won't want to keep checking it out and
21:56
the other brain and bone lots of studies
21:59
have shown that
22:00
you're more efficient your work as
22:02
better quality and you get more done if
22:04
you model tasks instead of trying to
22:06
multitask and other sorry guys I'll say
22:10
so one last tip one let's break back you
22:12
can do is that if you're trying to focus
22:14
on one thing at a time you find your
22:16
mind wandering get up and walk around
22:18
for five minutes it raises your heart
22:20
rate increases blood flow to your brain
22:22
oxygenate your brain gives you a little
22:24
bit of a refresh so we're in this new
22:28
world that we're gonna be emerging to
22:30
with with a lot more working from home
22:34
it's gonna be tougher to narrow down the
22:36
distractions for leaders out there who
22:39
might be either leading a company or you
22:42
know have a have a team that they they
22:44
work with what kind of suggestions would
22:46
you do for things like this right this
22:48
is the new normal where where people are
22:50
doing zoom calls or or working from home
22:53
and in multitasking how do you limit you
22:55
know how do you how do you force
22:56
yourself to limits and distractions in
22:58
that situation well all you can do is
23:01
just limit as limiting his main
23:02
distractions it is he possibly can i
23:04
maybe I'm not I've never had a job at an
23:08
office in my life so I'm not an expert
23:10
but um you could do things like not
23:12
require employees to respond
23:14
instantaneously email so they cost have
23:17
to be checking email or constantly
23:18
pinging them on this this and that give
23:20
these people off let letting them do
23:22
their job for a while without bothering
23:23
them don't be a distraction schedule
23:26
schedule some focus time schedule focus
23:28
time yet that's the whole thing is you
23:30
gotta plan ahead and schedule time to
23:32
model tasks and your work will improve
23:34
and this isn't just me there's numerous
23:37
studies showing this now giving our
23:39
little statistic is that a lot of people
23:40
out there are thinking no that's for
23:41
somebody else I'm really good at
23:43
multitasking like you're you said your
23:45
wife and your your daughter nobody is
23:47
good at multitasking in fact there's an
23:50
inverse correlation that people who
23:51
think they're the best at multitasking
23:53
and when I just them they're actually
23:55
the worst at it and it's for a simple
23:58
reason the people who multitask a lot
24:00
are people who who they can't help
24:04
themselves they just do it because they
24:05
can't they can't focus they can't ignore
24:07
the distractions so they rationalize it
24:09
to themselves by saying oh I can do it I
24:11
do a lot so I must be good
24:13
to make themselves feel good about
24:15
themselves by convincing themselves
24:16
they're really good at something which
24:18
they're actually really quite bad at and
24:21
the one thing the brain is really good
24:22
at its deluding itself that's for sure
24:25
so I was curious given that you're
24:27
saying what's going on right now given
24:30
what you do for a living where is your
24:33
mind right now how do you take people to
24:35
deal with this you know volitional
24:36
control trying to focus what we're
24:38
focusing on create different solutions
24:40
given with the coronavirus on what that
24:42
world is dealing with yeah I mean that's
24:45
a that's a big question it's more a
24:47
question about mental health and the
24:49
Navy yep
24:50
keeping focused at the no just keep in
24:53
mind that when I try to do this done
24:55
that speaking as a neuroscientist now
24:57
but as a person and I keep in mind that
24:58
we'll get through this you know we've
25:00
gotten through 1918 flu epidemic and two
25:03
world wars and we'll just keep your keep
25:07
your focus on the long term because
25:10
we'll get through this eventually and
25:12
then will everything be better one quick
25:19
question that popped up about the about
25:22
focus someone sitting here working
25:25
they'd like to have music on in the
25:27
background and and I don't know if it's
25:29
classical music you're a musician but
25:31
whatever kind of music it is on the
25:33
background because it feels to to some
25:36
people that they can focus better why is
25:38
that I'm glad you brought that up
25:40
because when I talk about multitasking
25:42
I'm not talking about two things going
25:44
on at the same time when I say multitask
25:46
I mean two cognitive demanding tasks try
25:49
and do two things that require focus and
25:51
attention if you can have music on the
25:54
background doesn't grab your attention
25:55
that's perfectly fine it can actually be
25:57
kind of meditative thing because tonight
25:58
when it's too quiet you're listening for
26:00
things that will distract you I listen
26:03
to the music all day long where I work
26:05
but listening to the music is not a
26:07
cognitive demanding task failing to
26:08
develop much thoughts but it can be
26:09
there in the background but when they I
26:11
can't do is that when I listen to we
26:13
record my our bands we record all of our
26:16
rehearsals and practices and I can't
26:18
listen to recordings of me playing while
26:20
I'm working because now I'm listening
26:21
for things like though you know should I
26:24
play this differently that engages me
26:26
too much so that I
26:27
can't listen to that acid that's
26:29
something that requires focus but just
26:31
walking and chewing gum and I'm not
26:33
cognitive demanding tasks you could do
26:35
that while you're thinking also any new
26:40
research you guys are working on in your
26:42
lab that that is interesting and people
26:44
might want to hear about yeah a few
26:47
things I mean one thing we're very
26:48
interested in in these limitations of a
26:50
cognitive capacity why our conscious
26:53
mind is so limited hmm and actually one
26:57
things you know so I do basic research
27:00
but occasionally something practical
27:02
falls on a basic research which is kind
27:04
of nice thing about basic research you
27:05
know scientists talk about basic versus
27:08
practical research or clinical versus
27:10
basic research clinical research is like
27:12
something that's gonna I'm working on
27:14
some some problems when drugs can have a
27:16
solution like right now or next few
27:18
years basically search is the same thing
27:20
but like on a 20-year times you're doing
27:22
things now that will help human health
27:24
farther down the road but could have a
27:26
greater impact you're learning more
27:27
basic stuff about how the brain or the
27:29
body body works but occasion something
27:32
practical falls out of it like for
27:34
example when I talked about this visual
27:36
perception thing we have where we're
27:38
taking in the world little bits at a
27:39
time we made a discovery four years ago
27:42
that I'm still surprised that and then
27:44
um your ability to perceive things in
27:46
your line of sight but even people have
27:50
different hot spots and cold spots where
27:51
they perceive things better faster of a
27:54
higher capacity and cool spots where
27:56
they have a actually react to pretty bad
27:58
a perception they look well if you just
28:03
look straight ahead keep your eyes still
28:05
so every time you move your eye around
28:06
you're fixating your eye is fixed on
28:07
something then you can think about when
28:09
your eyes still you have the right
28:10
versus left or up versus down or upper
28:13
right force upper left it used to be
28:15
thought for many decades that I was
28:17
trained that your ability to taking
28:18
information was even across the cross
28:20
your whole line of sight what we
28:23
discovered is that actually different
28:25
people have different hot spots and cold
28:26
spots some people are way better at
28:28
seeing things when they're in their
28:29
upper right visual field versus lower
28:31
left so people are really good at the
28:34
upper left and really bad at the lower
28:35
right we didn't expect that but it was
28:38
there and we but so now we've
28:40
overworking
28:41
by the company where we patented this
28:44
test where we can we take subjects in
28:46
give them a quick five-minute 10-minute
28:48
test we have a heat map of where you
28:50
perceive well where you perceive them
28:51
poorly where you have a hot spot where
28:54
the cool spot and new let me ask you if
28:56
you pay only sixty five million dollars
28:57
for a new Red Sox outfielder and what
29:00
you want to know whether they're a
29:01
little better on the right versus left
29:03
or a better seeing and up forces down
29:05
because if you know where your hot spots
29:06
and weak spots are you can mitigate that
29:08
by changing your behavior like reminding
29:10
yourself tree you actually you'd
29:12
actually train yourself we've shown this
29:13
with our alright by getting feedback and
29:16
where you're strong where you're weak
29:17
you can help even it out a little bit
29:18
and what happens is your brain starts
29:20
moving your eyes in ways to compensate
29:23
for your weaknesses so now all of a
29:24
sudden you're you're seeing things more
29:26
easily across the across the field so
29:28
it's also good for team building like
29:30
you want simple football team you want
29:33
people who are strong on the right to be
29:35
on the left side of the field people are
29:36
strong less stuff like stuff like that
29:46
doctors would anyone in baseball yet
29:49
kiss Lou I can see the wheels turn and
29:51
Louis thinking about making a comeback
29:54
him on your square for about six months
29:57
it's ready baby softball yeah nothing
30:00
makes a long time with your brain
30:02
congratulate us out we can just really
30:04
speed up the process but the groom so
30:06
for example for years I've often I've
30:08
alluded myself to two computer screens
30:09
is one over I haven't whatever I'm
30:11
working on and one where I have like
30:12
some science graphics or something so I
30:14
can refer to the two and four years I've
30:16
already has always had one screen in
30:18
front of me and one on the Left never
30:20
screwed on the right just never just
30:22
didn't ever felt right to me when we
30:24
made this discovery I did my test I
30:25
discovered I'm much better at perceiving
30:28
things on the left versus right so my
30:29
brain gradually figured out not to put
30:31
stuff on the right because it doesn't
30:32
like it there yeah where people will
30:36
company things like when I go to listen
30:39
to a lecture when I at college I always
30:41
sit on the right side of the room left
30:43
side I feel like I learn better on the
30:45
rough side of rumors the left side the
30:46
room stuff like that never knew now they
30:49
know
30:50
now you know why so I think one one last
30:55
question I have for you doc you're also
30:57
involved with some research with Nielsen
30:59
and some other folks how is Nara science
31:03
getting into the commercial world in the
31:05
corporate world either in in research
31:07
and product design and you know how is
31:10
it's making it making its way mini
31:11
stream that people might see that our
31:13
listeners might you know get a taste of
31:16
well it's um you can measure the brain
31:19
responses to different things like
31:21
products this is and see what you see
31:22
which ones are more effective or less
31:24
effective so like the Nielsen sample
31:26
Nielsen neurosciences company I was
31:28
involved in they had if you measure you
31:31
put electrodes on people's heads you
31:32
know right measure their brainwaves
31:34
there's a certain signature called gamma
31:37
which is about 35 Hertz or higher higher
31:40
frequency brainwaves they go off when
31:43
you're paying attention to something so
31:45
they did things like they showed people
31:47
TV commercials and figured out when
31:49
people were showing this reaction from
31:50
these high frequency gamma waves in
31:52
their brains and when they were showing
31:53
that they were paying attention and when
31:56
they weren't showing it they weren't
31:57
paying attention so you know which those
31:59
are words parts of worship which
32:00
commercials were effective versus not
32:02
affect stuff like that well you one
32:06
thing you can measure really readily in
32:07
the brain that's like our example of
32:09
different things at different sides you
32:11
can measure how well the rain the brain
32:13
reacts to things in the house oh well
32:14
how well it's focusing attention how
32:16
well it's perceiving things and that can
32:18
have implications for things like
32:20
heads-up displays for sports for neuro
32:23
marketing you know what grabs people's
32:24
attention forces not what's not grabbing
32:26
their attention hmm that's fascinating
32:29
stuff you you mentioned one last thing I
32:31
want to make sure we touched on brain
32:33
waves you mentioned that we didn't
32:35
really talk about it people used to
32:36
think brain waves is kind of like engine
32:39
exhaust right the engine was don't work
32:40
and running and and you know the the
32:43
exhaust comes out doesn't do anything
32:45
you found something different though
32:46
didn't you yeah well we're not the only
32:48
ones but but uh we helped when I was in
32:52
graduate school the the the brain was
32:55
usually thought of as a bunch of
32:57
separate little pieces like like like
32:58
like a bunch of like a clock with a
33:00
whole bunch of gears and if you figure
33:02
out what each gear doesn't
33:03
figure out what the brain does in this
33:05
case the gears being individual brain
33:07
cells and stuff that was the way I was
33:09
rated trained as a neuroscientist what's
33:12
become obvious over the past twenty
33:14
years or so is that there's these
33:15
emergent properties in the brain this
33:17
brain is an individual parts working
33:18
together it's like it's like they
33:20
network interactions that produce these
33:22
additional properties if you can't see
33:24
one piece at a time and one of those is
33:26
brain waves so it used to be thought
33:29
well we have this focus on individual
33:31
brain parts brain names are thought of
33:33
as like the humming of a car engine or
33:34
the exhaust makar engine humming in the
33:37
humming reflects whether the engine is
33:38
revving high or low but the humming
33:41
doesn't help the engine work that's why
33:43
people thought about brain waves but now
33:46
it's becoming increasing brain is kind
33:48
of like FM radio is that different parts
33:51
of your brain different networks in your
33:52
brain different neurons they they talk
33:55
to one another by sync by rhythmic by
33:57
synchronizing these rhythms by
33:59
synchronizing their waves and if they're
34:01
in sync and sync together if they're if
34:03
they're waving together they talk to one
34:05
another and if they're out of sync on
34:07
another they don't talk to one another
34:08
it's how the brain regulates the where
34:11
traffic flows in your brain but by uh by
34:13
them
34:14
synchronizing patterns of these these um
34:16
brain waves right and we think that's
34:19
why the explains this limited why our
34:22
conscious mind is so limited because if
34:24
the way your brain works the way thought
34:25
works is by these brain waves all
34:27
synchronizing together it means your
34:29
brain is squirting pakka's information
34:31
around in these rhythmic waves and that
34:35
means all the Fox you need for one
34:37
current moment for your conscious mind
34:39
have to fit in this in the side of one
34:41
wave hmm and that's ER because if your
34:45
brain works by FM radio then it's then
34:47
it's a then everything you need for one
34:49
moment in time for a conscious thought
34:51
has to fit all those pacts them if
34:53
making have to fit inside just one wave
34:54
huh that's really interesting and so how
34:57
does that if the you know we're talking
34:59
about brain waves we talked a little bit
35:01
about neuroplasticity in the common I
35:03
always say that the neurons that fire
35:05
together wire together how did how does
35:08
that affect if it's wirelessly right
35:10
kind of communicating through the brain
35:12
waves how does that affect
35:14
neuroplasticity and training
35:17
training you know the the mind to be
35:19
courageous or training it to shut off
35:21
the amygdala yeah good point
35:23
I mean you're right um so far together
35:25
wire together is how the brain makes new
35:28
connections if two neurons to brain
35:30
cells activate at the same time give off
35:32
let's go boss the same time they
35:34
straighten they form a connection
35:35
between them that's what you're talking
35:36
about Patrick it's the famous saying
35:38
from Donald Hebb neurons that fire
35:40
together wire together we've amended
35:42
that that's still true that's that's a
35:44
much that's still the case
35:46
but we've added to that by neurons and
35:48
hum together temporarily wired together
35:50
well but we didn't think about it as
35:53
Anatomy when I was in graduate school
35:54
again we learned we learned that Anatomy
35:57
was everything in the brain anatomy was
35:58
destiny neurons talk to another because
36:01
they share a physical connection that's
36:03
where fire together wire together comes
36:04
from but now the way if we think about
36:07
it now is the anatomy in the brain it
36:09
isn't destiny its potential anatomy is
36:14
like the road and highway system it says
36:16
where traffic could flow but something
36:19
else says where traffic does flow of a
36:21
mom at the moment and that's what these
36:22
brain waves do they are the traffic
36:25
signals on the highways a highway of
36:27
your brain it's like ways for your mind
36:30
your mind but having said that building
36:33
those roads and highways are very
36:34
important so if you build a bunch of if
36:36
you think about things in a positive way
36:38
you think about how to deal with fear
36:40
what not in a positive way you build
36:42
bigger highways that will help the
36:45
traffic flow in that direction yeah just
36:47
just said it man we can't be everything
36:49
because our thoughts are highly flexible
36:50
so something has to has to determine
36:52
where there were the traffic flows on
36:55
the highways that's why I think the
36:57
brain waves are doing the building but
36:58
them it doesn't take anything away from
37:00
building those highways you need those
37:01
highways so the traffic can get
37:03
somewhere well and I think it's amazing
37:05
it's a great great thing to end on that
37:07
the the our brain has evolved to evolve
37:10
right to keep to keep changing to keep
37:12
creating new pathways and and reaching
37:15
higher potential and anyone out there
37:16
can do it you don't have to be born with
37:19
gifts you don't have to have you know
37:20
anything special so awesome awesome
37:22
conversation Lou you got anything else
37:24
yeah I would just like to say that I
37:26
know a lot of people probably watching
37:27
this maybe are in the industry and
37:29
really enjoyed this conversation but
37:30
even
37:30
for someone like myself who's not you
37:33
know it's maybe in a different part of
37:35
the world I talk about sports for a
37:37
living
37:37
I'm still fascinated by it and be honest
37:39
with you this last thirty seven eight
37:41
minutes whatever it was was fascinating
37:43
it was an honor just to be part of that
37:44
discussion so thank you Patrick
37:45
thank you thank you Earl thank you you
37:49
as always well thanks so much and thank
37:50
you everybody for tuning in we'll get a
37:53
recording of this up as well and if you
37:55
guys have questions you know you can
37:58
either shoot them to me or hit me on
38:01
Facebook or Twitter or Instagram
38:04
anything and I can track down Lou or
38:07
Earl or whoever and we can get some
38:08
questions answered if you hadn't - so
38:10
everyone thank you so much for all great
38:12
to catch up with you that night i while
38:15
i'm sequestered at home I picked a
38:17
harmonica play yet but I want to sit in
38:21
with the band for at least one or two
38:23
songs in about a year we'll make it
38:25
happen
38:26
awesome thanks guys see ya we care take
38:31
care