Transcript
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you I'm very well how are you awesome
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thank you let me first introduce dr.
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Boll Otto who's been in a neuroscience
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research field for over 20 years wrote
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one of my favorite books on neuroscience
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and perception called DBA the science of
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seeing differently if you hadn't read it
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yet it is it's fantastic it's great
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mind-bending type of stuff good
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complement to furious fuel so make sure
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you get both of them and most
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impressively I think a three-time
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mainstage TED speaker that's really
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impressive
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and that Cirque du Soleil one if you
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guys haven't seen one he did one in
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conjunction with the Cirque du Soleil
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and it is incredible and as designed on
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inspiring so beau first question before
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we get into sort of the neuroscience and
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stuff three TED Talks super impressive I
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don't know anyone else has done that
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many what what's your most popular
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moment either for you or for the
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audience and all of your TED Talks for
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the last day it was particularly
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powerful to be on stage with the
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wonderful performers of a Cirque du
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Soleil that for meeting was a highlight
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and I think that was possibly one of the
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better moments for the audience as well
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so let's let's get into uncertainty
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everybody is sitting at home sheltering
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in place sequestered because of the
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novel and and for those of you who are
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familiar with the definition novel just
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means new and unknown and the novel
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coronavirus is just that new and unknown
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so it's creating uncertainty but what
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what is uncertainty and what is reality
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it's not not what most people think of
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them by definition is it so well there's
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a couple of questions than that I
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suppose so
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what is uncertainty uncertainty is
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actually something that we experience
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all the time I mean everything that your
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brain does is well at least almost
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everything your brain does is then
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attempt to reduce uncertainty so
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uncertainty is basically the inability
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to predict what's going to happen in the
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future
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and that has been part of our evolution
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since the very beginning in fact it's
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the is fundamental to the evolution in
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any living system the if you couldn't
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predict during evolution you were
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selected out so the better your brain is
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able to predict the more likely was able
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to survive during evolution and so the
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consequence of that is right now people
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are experiencing that tremendous sense
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of uncertainty that inability to predict
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what's going to happen and your brain
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then goes into a state potentially a
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state of panic right it goes into stress
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because it realizes that when I was in
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this state before the chance of dying
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was actually increased so your brain is
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basically saying we'll do anything now
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to actually increase certainty right and
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so that part of the brain is obviously
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an amygdala the limbic system the fights
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right fight flight or freeze response
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can we override that uncertainty in that
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feeling with our prefrontal cortex
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what's the newer part of our brain yeah
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miss very good point so the and first of
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all that that sense of fear is actually
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a very good idea right that's not a
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pathology it's a very natural feeling to
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feel that sense of angst
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anxiety about being in that state
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because that's that feeling has actually
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enabled us to survive in the past so
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first of all it's not a pathological
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feeling the question is what do you do
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with it and there are a number of
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different responses one response could
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be simply and what your brain is telling
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you is get away from work wherever you
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are now in a sense right go it could be
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go anywhere just away from where you are
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if there was a lion coming at you that
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might be a really good idea
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so just to leave from wherever you are
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in any direction another strategy is
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simply just to stand still so we're all
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familiar with the deer in the headlights
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mmm freeze response the freeze response
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because sometimes that's actually a
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really good response because you don't
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know if your next step is going to be
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over the cliff
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right you just don't know so the best
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response is just a standstill there's
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another response where you can actually
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take agency and decide where you're
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going to go right decide how you're
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going to deal with it and that's where
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you can activate and engage your
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prefrontal cortex so the prefrontal
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cortex is the front part of your brain
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as you say it's one of your our newest
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evolutionary structures and what the
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prefrontal cortex largely does is it
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inhibits the other parts of the brain
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right so what's interesting about the
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prefrontal cortex and and we actually
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have a new slogan coming out which is
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just activate your prefrontal right
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engage that part engage in your behavior
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intentionally as it runs you know be
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proactive rather than reactive so we can
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actually use the anxiety we can use the
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fear to then decide what we're going to
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do with it
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and again that's what's activating your
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prefrontal cortex using that and when we
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meditate that's effectively exercising
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that part of your brain because what
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attention people think about attention
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there's a tremendous amount of research
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on the neuroscience of attention what we
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attend to what's interesting is that was
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powerful about attention is not what you
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look at it's what you look away from
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because what you look at is obvious
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we've evolved reflexively to look at
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things so when people are finding
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themselves in a traffic accident and you
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know so often the accidents in the other
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Lane going the opposite direction and
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you're wondering why on earth am I in
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every one slowing down why am i why are
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all these cars in front of me slowing
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down and the reason is because they're
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all looking right it was called
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rubbernecking because we off to look now
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next time that happens you try not
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looking and feel how hard it is to not
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look yeah yeah so what people are doing
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now is in some sense they feel like
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they're having a conscious freewill but
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they're not they're just reflexively
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looking at the obvious they're looking
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at the things we've all to look at
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they're looking at the increased numbers
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of deaths they're looking at the news
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almost almost
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habitually almost indignantly right yeah
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to not do that is what's hard to not
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look at the offices what's hard and
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that's what's engaging your prefrontal
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and that's what again what MIT
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meditation is helping you to do is to
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look away from the obvious because your
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brain is like a muscle you use it or you
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lose it yeah well one of the things I
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talked about in the book in my book and
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part of the platform for dealing with
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fear and using it as fuel is research
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done by ki and in a Baylor when she was
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at MIT on valence and the fact that we
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make these subconscious shortcuts which
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are deciding if something's good and
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rooting it in the subconscious shortcuts
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are that knee-jerk survival reaction so
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we can't avoid those thoughts we can't
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avoid thinking that but we can't avoid
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acting on them and saying stop now now
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I'm going to engage both hemispheres of
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my brain so meditation is a great way to
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do that breathing I suggest something
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called a 4 by 4 breathe in for a count
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of four hold it for four out for four
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and when you're feeling into the effects
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of cortisol and DHEA and adrenalin and
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all that that's released from the
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amygdala but what else do you recommend
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and how do you how do you suggest people
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deal with this long-term uncertainty as
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we all as we all sit at home here
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thinking about it a great question in
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some sense we're all and asking that
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question we're all looking for that
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answer we're actually starting a series
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of experiments to address that question
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in fact so people can actually and
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people watching now they can actually be
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part of those experiments and then we
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can give that data back to them find out
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what actually are the strategies that
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you can use right now to deal with this
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uncertainty but one of the hypotheses
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and it seems to be true is for action
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rather than reaction most of our
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behavior is reactive something happens
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then we respond to it and this is at the
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most basic level that you're talking
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about reflexive be even at the cognitive
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level we will react to something that's
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already happened and of course there's
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an element of choice in there because
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you can decide how you're going to react
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and how you react to something actually
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determines the meaning of that something
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for your brain because your what your
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brain is interested in is not data all
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the information is receiving for the
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world is just data and data is
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meaningless right even the light that
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falls into your eye is inherently
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meaningless it conflates multiple things
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about the world you know
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it conflates size and distance it
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conflates something that's loud and far
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away will generate the exact same
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stimulus in something it's quiet enough
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close but your brain has no access to
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that physical world so it generates this
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perceptions of behavior according to its
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history of what it meant for its
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behavior in the past so you're always
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seeing and feeling and believing
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according to that history of past
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meanings well how you choose to respond
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to something will determine the meaning
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of that information not the information
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itself but the meaning of it and as that
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meaning that then gets encoded in your
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brain and that meaning becomes part of
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your future past so how you respond now
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will be same I say that again slowly bow
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because I think some people that might
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be a new concept
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your future past your future PAP's so if
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everything your brain is doing up to
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this point is a consequence via history
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of your of your past perceptions how you
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saw something in the past your past
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meanings your past responses then what
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you do now will become part of your
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future past
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so how you respond to something you
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might have no free will in the response
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right in some sense um but what you can
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do you can't change the thing that
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happened but you can change the meaning
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of the thing that happened you have
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control over that and in doing so you'll
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change what you will do in the future
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when you engage with something that's
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not dissimilar because you're using
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those prior beliefs as a prediction for
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the the outcome of the tournament what
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you're doing now will become part of
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your future bias your future assumptions
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and that you have control over right so
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so one can therefore be proactive in
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their engagement with uncertainty and
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not just reactive so there we we know
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for instance that we can put people in
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just different states of power so I can
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get you to imagine so this is research
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with someone who's been working with me
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for a very long time Richard Clark and
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we can put people into a state of
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disempowerment I get you to imagine a
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time and now you don't have to imagine
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now it's just happening and time where
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you were very stressed and fell out of
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control verse another time when you were
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stressed but felt in control and when
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you feel stressed and out of control
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what we found is that the illusions that
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that I've made actually increase you use
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context more but you use it
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indiscriminately you become more
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gullible right you become morally
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judgmental you actually become a more
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extreme version of yourself if you're
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liberally become more liberal if you're
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conservative
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you become more conservative why because
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if you if you've been primed to be in a
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weak state to feel disempowered which is
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what many people are feeling right now
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so you become a more extreme version of
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yourself right because you're going to a
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place with familiarity mm-hmm right but
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what's beautiful about uncertainty in
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some sense is that it's actually
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possibly the only time we actually have
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true sense of choice
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because you can do the obvious but you
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can also choose to not do the obvious
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right if everything's happy and
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everything is wonderful there's only
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really one thing you're going to do
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which is you're gonna keep doing what
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you were doing before why would you
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knock right but it's when things are
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really difficult and uncertain that now
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you actually have a choice you can do
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the obvious you can go to fear and from
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often from fear to hate or fear the
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anger you know you can go from fear to
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curiosity mm-hmm right fear to
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generosity so another thing people can
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do and we found is that and we're
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actually doing experiments on this is
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not just be proactive in your own life
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and but also be proactive in the service
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of others
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so when you're actually when we know for
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instance that we will endure more if
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you're doing it in the service of
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someone else then you're doing it for
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yourself
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so in our experiments again with Richard
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when the lab was in the London Science
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Museum we would subject people to paint
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it didn't hurt them but we put their
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arms in very cold water and you have the
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sense of burning it's not moving their
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skin at all but people would keep their
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arms in the cold water longer if they
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felt it was in service if this
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experiment designed so that actually
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everyone else won hmm then if they did
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it for themselves there's some there's
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some great studies as well if people are
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interested in this by Abigail Marsh
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who's a professor at Georgetown
14:13
University and and she's proven that the
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courage in a sense what you're talking
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about that the proactive choice and
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engaging the SG ACC the courage center
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of our brain is much higher when you're
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motivated by by altruistic ideal so
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doing something for your family doing
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something for your community doing
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something for your friend so I love the
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idea it's it's started to hit on this
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bow I love the idea that in this moment
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of uncertainty we can choose to do
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things in service for others when yes
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when we can yeah and that's activating
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your prefrontal again but also it comes
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back so in some sense by doing it for
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others it ultimately comes back to you
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because in some sense every behavior is
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selfish you could argue right
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the question is how many people do you
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affect positively or negatively in your
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behavior hmm so if for instance you're
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being proactive and you're being a
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proactive in the source of others that
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can actually lower your cortisol levels
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because you now feel empowered you feel
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okay
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I have agency in the next step right I
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have agency and what's going to happen
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not for those people who don't know
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agency it just means you've got control
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your you have control so that's a agency
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is the scientific way of saying yes yes
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you feel you have some level of
15:30
determination of what's gonna happen
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yeah right and when do you feel that
15:34
sense of control you actually feel less
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uncertain if you're feeling less
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uncertain it means you're prepared to
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actually adapt to what's gonna happen
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next
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so you're you're adapted yeah we've
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we've adapted to be able to adapt we
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were the brain is adapted to adapt right
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this is not the first time we've
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experienced uncertainty again we
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experience uncertainty every time you
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open your eyes this is a fundamental
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thing of what it is to be alive what
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people are looking in some sense
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discovery some maybe for the first time
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is that this is fundamental to
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everything that we do which is often why
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we design our systems to diminish
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uncertainty right think about the
16:14
success of uber one of the reasons why
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were successful is not simply because
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you can order a taxi easier or faster
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it's because they tell you when the taxi
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is going to arrive
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yeah yeah right so if you're on the
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street corner you're waiting it's like
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you know the tax wait for attacks like
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you're meeting right well maybe not now
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right but at some point and but if I say
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don't worry it's gonna be in there in
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five minutes what's more I'm going to
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show you where it is yeah your cortisol
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levels stay low etc and what's the
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significance of cortisol level staying
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low there's tremendous amount of
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research showing the deleterious
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consequence of chronic levels of
16:53
cortisol sure you it diminishes your
16:56
immune system right so your ability to
16:58
fight off the virus decreases if you get
17:02
ill it high cortisol will increase the
17:05
magnitude of the illness so by being in
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service of other people you will
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actually facilitate or rather will
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facilitate your own immune system and
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better wellness in general yeah you will
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feel better yourselves but so it's
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actually in some sense and service you
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which is of course you want to be
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authentic in it otherwise the the
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dissonance will actually create the
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stress itself yeah exactly
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so though you talk you've got a great
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concept I love in the book as well about
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going from one spot to the other so some
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people are uncertain they might be
17:39
feeling like fear or cowardice anger and
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they want to go from point A to point B
17:46
which is courage and confidence and
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uncertainty but it doesn't really work
17:51
like that does it no it doesn't though
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me will tell ourselves that maybe it
17:57
does so so there's a couple of common
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concepts within that so the first thing
18:01
is that if you ever you want to go from
18:03
A to B your first step is not be right
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your first step is to go from a to not a
18:09
hmm right because what do I mean by that
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so if you get a stimulus your brain will
18:16
generate a perception of behavior and
18:18
perception and that's grounded in your
18:20
history but not just your history the
18:23
history of your family the history of
18:24
your culture in fact much of it your
18:26
evolutionary history all of that's
18:28
encoded in your brain so most of your
18:30
life actually happened without you there
18:32
yeah and what that history gives you are
18:35
your biases and your assumptions so your
18:38
stimulus comes in and just like a reflex
18:40
you will generate perception of behavior
18:42
according to those fives and assumptions
18:44
many of what you inherited okay and
18:46
those assumptions and biases keep you
18:49
alive they're essential for your
18:51
survival as you are saying earlier they
18:53
are the sort of unconscious reflexes
18:57
just as when you go to the doctor and he
18:59
or she hits your patellar tendon your
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leg goes up same thing for perception
19:02
behavior right every time you take a
19:06
step you have hundreds of functions that
19:08
the floor is not going to give way that
19:09
your legs aren't going to give right
19:11
they're essential the problem is they
19:13
also constrain what we call your space
19:15
of possibility mmm so the only way to
19:20
see differently to adapt is to let go of
19:23
those assumption
19:24
some biases which is not reduce it's
19:28
hard to do and there's a number of
19:30
reasons why it's hard to do but that's
19:32
to go from a to not it to let first you
19:35
have to let go of those biases
19:36
assumptions to be in the unknown and so
19:39
nothing interesting or very few things
19:41
that are interesting begin with knowing
19:43
they begin with not knowing which is why
19:46
I began all my talk saying I want you to
19:48
know less at the end and I think you
19:49
know now right I actually but I want you
19:53
to understand more yeah
19:56
which comes on to actually we think
19:59
another hypothesis for what you can do
20:01
now which is understanding but we can
20:05
come to that I think that's another
20:06
potential therapeutic for dealing with
20:11
uncertainty right now is to seek
20:13
understanding not knowing but
20:15
understanding but area so to be in not a
20:18
is to be an uncertainty and that's the
20:20
only place you have the possibility of
20:21
actually expanding your perception right
20:25
and in order to do so to step into not a
20:28
to step to uncertain you have to have
20:30
courage and I found what we're
20:31
particularly interested is not
20:33
confidence we're interested in courage
20:34
yeah so in our education program our
20:37
focus was not confidence to do something
20:40
if confidence means you know what's
20:41
going to happen next
20:42
you're not uncertainly but to do
20:45
something with courage means you're
20:47
doing it knowing that it might fail
20:49
mmm-hmm that's far more interesting but
20:53
you also have to be able to know what
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your assumptions and biases are but we
20:56
almost never know what they are yeah
20:58
right and the best person to reveal them
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to you is usually not you it's usually
21:03
someone else which is why expanding your
21:07
perception requires humility mmm the
21:10
willingness to say I don't know right
21:14
interesting a lot of people huh it's a
21:17
tough one for a lot of people but
21:18
fortunately your brain also gave you a
21:20
space to do that and science is actually
21:22
one of those spaces and it's not science
21:24
is anything that is creative right it
21:26
seeks the unknown right science is not
21:30
actually about answer science about
21:32
iterating to better questions hmm right
21:35
finding a good questions really hard
21:38
that's it yeah and having the curiosity
21:41
to so in my I started a whole series of
21:45
tech companies throughout my career
21:47
before I got into the neuroscience
21:49
research and that was one of the things
21:50
we'd spent a lot of time in what is the
21:53
right question how can we change this I
21:55
I actually you know one of my favorite
21:58
stories to tell audiences as I fired
21:59
some guy cuz he did this twice first
22:01
time I I gave him a warning second time
22:04
when I asked him why he did something
22:05
and he said because that's the way it's
22:07
always been done uh whoops was was time
22:11
for him to hit the road but but finding
22:13
the right questions to ask and then
22:15
exactly what you're saying having the
22:17
courage being uncomfortable or being
22:20
comfortable feeling uncomfortable right
22:22
getting into that that space of the
22:24
unknown leads to a tremendous amount of
22:27
success and you know almost all fields
22:29
but there's actually a way to engage
22:31
with it where you're absolutely right
22:33
that it requires that courage it
22:35
requires that sense of being
22:37
uncomfortable but there's also another
22:40
way of actually engaging with it where
22:41
those feelings don't even arise in the
22:43
first instance hmm right so we typically
22:46
see uncertainty and conflict as a bad
22:48
thing
22:49
and as we're experienced of course it
22:52
can have very serious significant
22:54
consequences the unknown but there's
22:58
also a way of engaging on talking beyond
23:00
covert 19 I'm thinking about uncertainty
23:02
in general now if you are interested in
23:07
understanding if you're interested in
23:09
expanding your perception in empathy and
23:12
compassion right then actually you seek
23:16
uncertainty
23:18
you want it you feel excited to be there
23:21
because now you realize this is the only
23:24
place I can be if I'm going to expand my
23:26
perception and again if you expand your
23:29
perception what does that mean
23:30
I literally mean in a sense of expanding
23:34
your mind you increase the connectivity
23:36
of your brain you have more degrees of
23:39
freedom to think when Dave struggled and
23:42
I were doing the education program we
23:45
called it an agility of thought why is
23:48
that useful it's because when you're
23:50
confronted with uncertainty you have
23:52
more directions to move from if you're
23:55
only in on a line right what you know
23:58
this dimension I can only go towards or
24:00
back but if I'm going to plane I can go
24:03
toward that or to the right to the left
24:04
and climb in a cube I can go up and down
24:06
right you become more adaptable and if
24:11
you feel more adaptable you actually
24:14
will thrive more you'll have a better
24:16
income you'll have better relationships
24:18
you'll actually live longer you'll be
24:20
more optimistic in the face of crisis
24:22
because you feel better able to adapt to
24:25
the amount hmm yeah there's some some
24:29
great research as well around in neuro
24:31
scientists refer to part of that as
24:33
novel seeking finding the unknown
24:35
finding new things and and there's great
24:38
research around extreme athletes who who
24:41
do things that are that are risky that
24:43
are novel being much healthier and in
24:45
much better shape not because of the
24:47
sport that they do but because just what
24:50
you're saying that mindset of
24:51
adaptability and seeking if uncertainty
24:54
is hugely powerful yes there's another
24:58
really important part of that though
24:59
which rich and I were working on on a
25:03
project we were working on with
25:05
intolerance the neuroscience of
25:07
intolerance and how to facilitate
25:09
toleration towards openness and we when
25:14
we think about openness we typically
25:16
think about as you're describing where
25:17
someone's open to new experiences and
25:21
that's a really important point right
25:23
you need to be open to a new kind of
25:25
experience you need to be open to the
25:26
possibility of uncertainty but we're
25:29
also exploring that maybe there's also a
25:30
second kind of open
25:31
and maybe it's even more important which
25:34
is the willingness and ability to let go
25:36
of what you thought you knew before mmm
25:39
so right so you can have someone who's
25:42
super open very quickly they come to a
25:47
judgment and that judgment will never
25:49
shift you are always X you know I was
25:52
very happy to meet you but now you're X
25:54
and you will never be other than X yeah
25:56
there are other people who are maybe
25:58
more introverted there they're less
26:01
willing to experience all that novelty
26:04
but they're more willing to let go of
26:06
what they thought to be true already hmm
26:09
right so in that sense you can have in
26:12
you know I'm in the UK right now in the
26:14
southwest of England with my three
26:15
grumblings and normally based in New
26:18
York but the you can have very
26:20
conservative Guardian readers right but
26:25
you can also have very liberal Telegraph
26:27
readers ie people who are willing to
26:29
shift from wherever they are wherever
26:32
they start but they're willing to move
26:34
and you have some people who are not
26:36
willing to move in sewing the you know
26:39
when one of my big recommendations is
26:41
always replace judgment with curiosity
26:43
and it's it's so difficult to do but
26:47
once you find that habit once you go in
26:50
and you start recognizing I encourage
26:52
people to take a journal for a week for
26:54
every time they come to a judgment and
26:55
often times I'll say when you walk into
26:58
Starbucks and you're like me from a
27:00
Irish Catholic blue-collar Boston
27:02
neighborhood and you see some guy who
27:04
looks like he's a victim of a drive-by
27:05
piercing instead of saying god what a
27:08
freak you know you say well what what
27:10
can I admire about him what's really
27:12
interesting about that guy and you just
27:14
feel your whole perception shift and the
27:16
way you interact with that person
27:17
changes and it's just simply recognizing
27:20
a silly bias that somebody else
27:22
populated into your subconscious so if
27:25
that brings me in that person I want to
27:27
I want to ask about the understanding in
27:29
a second but before I do parents and
27:32
kids especially we're populating our
27:36
children's database because they didn't
27:38
choose what language they speak the
27:40
color of their skin their brothers and
27:41
sisters so their idea of the
27:44
crime isn't is specific to where they're
27:47
born and those subconscious decisions
27:50
and judgments are all based on you know
27:53
the first 15 18 years of our life and
27:56
prefrontal cortex doesn't develop until
27:58
early 20s fully but what can either
28:02
parents or children or teenagers or
28:05
adolescents do to to consciously think
28:08
how do I get away from wanting to be
28:10
right wanting to stick with those prior
28:12
beliefs that were were given to me and
28:14
open themselves up to two more
28:17
experiences yeah well first of all the
28:19
parents in some sense don't have to do
28:21
very much at all because kids come into
28:22
the world with that hmm right we often
28:26
teach it out of them yeah interesting
28:30
because I did I recently did something
28:34
for four television series it was on
28:37
child development and my background is
28:39
in neuro development how the brain
28:41
develops having said that one of the
28:43
best people that people should look into
28:45
when it comes to teenage the teenage
28:47
brain is Sarah Jane Blake one brilliant
28:50
neuroscientist was the excuse ailed is
28:52
now at Cambridge and a good friend so
28:55
and she's done some great work with good
28:57
faith and on her own but so the brain
29:01
comes into the world and and we James
29:06
used to think or we used to describe
29:09
it's bumbling massive confusion right
29:12
that that's what the baby is seeing and
29:15
the child is saying what if it's not
29:16
that though because to be confused
29:18
suggests that there's an expectation but
29:22
in order for that baby to survive it has
29:24
to actually reach out into the world
29:25
because your brain will a makes meaning
29:27
by physically engaging with the
29:29
environment because your brain needs
29:30
feedback hmm if you push something it
29:33
falls over your brain then learned right
29:37
and so what if the brain actually comes
29:42
into the world with the desire to
29:44
explore
29:45
right and this is actually in our recent
29:48
research on the perception of awe and
29:50
Wonder
29:50
we're wondering from stead the child's
29:53
brain is actually full of all in wonder
29:55
not confusion
29:58
why are wonder because when you feel on
30:01
wonder you feel small but connected to
30:03
the world your ego diminishes your
30:06
tolerance to risk increases your need
30:09
for closure decreases these are all the
30:11
findings that we recently did with
30:14
Cirque du Soleil which the third set
30:15
talks about that's exactly what you
30:19
would need if you're a young animal or
30:22
young human who has to actually make
30:26
sense of the world by exquisite
30:27
exploring it to actually step into the
30:29
unknown so what if they actually come
30:30
into the world with the desire to do
30:32
exactly that but then we impose on them
30:34
our need to diminish their risk
30:38
we say don't do that we try to mitigate
30:40
risk for them hmm so I suggest with
30:44
parents and what I've tried to do with
30:45
my own three gremlins and there they're
30:48
18 19 and 21 beautiful people yeah
30:52
they're wonderful is that is the concept
30:56
of the sandbar okay what if as and I'd
31:00
say it's not only true for parenting but
31:02
might I think it's true for love in
31:04
general or even for friendship the
31:07
sandbar and actually comes back to we're
31:09
talking about earlier about being in
31:11
service of others so I say to my kids
31:15
I'm not your boat I'm not going to take
31:16
you out of the water and and take you to
31:19
the other side because you love swimming
31:21
right so you're gonna be in the water
31:24
you're gonna swim we're down in Devon so
31:26
we're near water here right you're gonna
31:28
be out in the water you're gonna swim
31:29
the waves and all this but you can get
31:31
tired so you can come back here and
31:34
stand on the sandbar
31:36
you can rest you can still feel the
31:38
waves you can still for the water and
31:40
then you can swim again and you're gonna
31:42
get strong enough to eventually you're
31:43
going to swim to their side but I'm
31:44
never going to let you drown
31:46
so what if love is about enabling people
31:50
to take risk rather than preventing them
31:52
from taking it yeah and creating that
31:56
context for risk-taking and that's what
32:00
we talked about today and that's what
32:02
science is that's what play is that's
32:04
what all these and we would argue that
32:05
play and science is nothing other than
32:07
play with intention right but and that's
32:10
what great startups are as well a good
32:12
culture and a great startup allows
32:14
failure actually encourages failure you
32:17
know you hear that feeling forward all
32:19
the time which I don't like because
32:20
you're failing then you should be
32:22
learning if it's a well-designed
32:25
experiment a poorly designed experiment
32:27
is a failure because you learn from it
32:29
right but life is an experiment so it's
32:33
creating that space for the person you
32:36
love your young person to take that risk
32:39
to get that feedback to engage and it's
32:42
so sometimes so hard to do in one of my
32:46
theories as well as parents who have
32:49
tried to protect you've heard the term
32:51
helicopter yeah what I call bulldozer
32:53
parents making the path as smooth as
32:55
possible they've done a tremendous
32:57
disservice to a whole generation because
33:00
they haven't learned coping mechanisms
33:02
for stress no because the stress is
33:04
taken away that their schedule is
33:06
planned from piano lessons to practice
33:09
tutoring to speaking mandarin and they
33:12
don't have any time to to either get in
33:14
difficult situations get get bored get
33:17
stressed and and then try and come up
33:19
with coping strategies for that and
33:20
that's done a tremendous disservice and
33:23
that's it's one of the things i I'm
33:25
adamant about - so I love your you know
33:27
I love the sand bar and I think that's
33:31
true also not just with kids but I think
33:33
in in romantic relationships in
33:35
friendships right I think this is what
33:38
it is - to care for another person is is
33:42
to look out to enable them to take that
33:45
risk to not let them drown in order to
33:48
do that the key thing I think boat in
33:52
order to enable that is letting go of
33:54
being right because if someone's taking
33:56
the risk that you don't agree with you
33:58
want to be right and tell them
33:59
what you're doing is wrong that's right
34:01
and that's so hard that there's a number
34:03
of reasons why that's so hard right the
34:05
first one is we don't want them to be
34:06
hurt
34:07
yeah right so but but imagine and for
34:11
those who have young gremlins in their
34:13
life we all know the experience when
34:16
they're starting to run and they're just
34:18
you know this high off the ground
34:27
because people aren't aware but when you
34:31
run and when you walk you are falling
34:33
yeah your brain is a constant state of
34:36
falling that's what you're doing Kent
34:38
you're catching yourself yeah you're
34:39
constantly you're in a you're in a
34:40
dynamic equilibrium where your brain
34:42
throws itself forward throws body for it
34:44
say I'm out of balance and then the feet
34:46
try to keep yourself from falling
34:47
forward right so they're trying to
34:49
figure what that dynamic balance is and
34:51
we all know when that head gets a little
34:53
bit too far and it's you know it's on
34:55
the pavement you think all my goodness
34:56
is gonna be powerful now imagine if at
34:59
that point every single time you said
35:01
stop they would literally never learn
35:05
how to yeah to find that point they're
35:09
looking for that point and they can only
35:11
find that point when they've gone over
35:13
it right so there's that helmet there's
35:17
also the element of trust right to trust
35:21
that they once they find that point and
35:23
go over it that they will learn from
35:25
that and be able to not go to that point
35:27
before yeah I mean next right
35:31
so there's element of trust and of
35:33
course young people anyone loves to feel
35:36
that sense of agency and trust that
35:38
again that they are in control and
35:41
they're getting better they're learning
35:43
how to learn which is yeah and then as
35:47
you say they're learning those coping
35:48
strategies they're learning how to make
35:50
those decisions right
35:53
so we also but as you say we often
35:55
impose our own biases and assumptions
35:57
why because they worked for us we think
36:00
well first of all we don't know we have
36:02
them right as I was saying before often
36:06
we don't even know that we're doing it
36:07
with assumptions of bias is much less
36:09
that we have them and much less what
36:11
they are
36:12
but so we then impose and why because
36:15
well we behave as if we have an
36:18
objective view of the world when we
36:20
don't our perception of the world is
36:22
subjective yeah
36:24
but nonetheless we think well it works
36:27
for us so therefore it must work for you
36:31
so it took us so much pain to get to
36:36
that point where we finally realized it
36:38
we don't want our kids to have to go
36:40
through those five six levels of pain
36:42
we're gonna shortcut it for them and say
36:44
here's let me take away the pain here's
36:46
the way you should do it that's right
36:47
and of course we should also be able to
36:49
learn from other people's experience
36:51
it's not to say that we have to go
36:53
through every single experience
36:54
otherwise culture itself will never fall
36:56
yeah right
36:58
so we can also learn from the experience
37:01
of others but yes we have to be aware
37:03
that we have to let them develop their
37:06
own bias and assumptions and not just
37:08
inherit ours and then engage with them
37:11
with questions rather than answers and
37:13
this is generally true in any
37:15
conversation that is engaged in conflict
37:18
right imagine what would happen when
37:21
we're engaged in conflict which I
37:22
defined as engaging a situation was
37:24
different from what you expect you're
37:26
now in conflict right and instead of
37:29
engaging that with an answer you engage
37:32
in that with a question hmm
37:34
because everyone makes sense to
37:36
themselves they just don't make sense to
37:39
other people right yeah and it's because
37:43
they have their own set of biases and
37:46
assumptions and if you knew what that
37:48
was their behavior would actually
37:50
probably be quite rational given what
37:52
those beliefs and assumptions and
37:54
unconscious biases are right they just
37:57
don't make sense you because you have a
37:58
different space of possibility because
38:00
you have been biasing assumptions
38:01
because you have a different history so
38:04
you try to reconcile the behavior given
38:06
your set of bias assumptions which many
38:08
of them have inherited so to know
38:10
someone is to know why they're doing it
38:12
not what they did
38:14
and that question and that questioning
38:19
is is a great my shortcut way of
38:21
describing that particularly my kids are
38:23
before I have kids to my employees was
38:25
you might be broadcasting on a crystal
38:28
clear 98.7 you know megahertz out on the
38:32
radio but someone else's radio was tuned
38:34
into a different frequency so so they're
38:36
not hearing the message that you're
38:38
sending out and you've got asked them
38:39
what channel they're on and it's a
38:41
primitive way of saying the same idea
38:44
you've got to try and figure out what
38:46
what's important to them it's a
38:48
spectacular notion as well you mentioned
38:51
a second ago Bo about understanding is a
38:55
potential coping mechanism tell me about
38:56
that yeah so again this is actually a
39:00
research that we're starting to engage
39:02
in so it's a hypothesis and the but it's
39:07
based on some empirical evidence we have
39:09
some pilot evidence as just this might
39:11
be true but that understanding something
39:17
and what I mean by understanding is not
39:19
just knowing a fact right so you can put
39:24
stuff on the table and you can you could
39:26
say you can know how many things are on
39:28
the table that's not to understand the
39:30
situation that's just to know the
39:32
situation in some sense you know the
39:34
facts of it to understand it is to know
39:36
why they're there but to know why
39:39
they're there in a way that enables you
39:40
to predict something else in the future
39:43
so understanding something equals
39:46
mc-squared
39:47
right enables us to predict situations
39:52
that we haven't yet experienced okay
39:55
it's a principle that transcends context
39:59
and so understanding is based at getting
40:02
at those principles that help you take
40:05
what you know in one situation and apply
40:08
it to another
40:09
hmm right that's what artificial neural
40:12
networks are doing that's what your
40:14
brain is doing you know your brain is
40:16
evolved to try to find these principles
40:18
and the better able you are to find
40:23
principles that transcend context the
40:24
more you're able to adapt to new
40:27
contexts in the future
40:28
so we think that that might feed back to
40:33
your sense of wellness your sense of
40:39
ability to sit within uncertainty
40:42
because you will feel that you're better
40:44
able to adapt to new situations because
40:47
a new situation is not necessarily it's
40:51
an opportunity you'll be able to flex
40:54
you will to be agile resilient but if
40:57
you learn a rule that applies only to
40:59
this situation change the situation
41:01
you're gonna be selected out yeah so
41:08
rich and I have been exploring the idea
41:09
that this is the basis this might be one
41:12
other mechanism by which the brain deals
41:15
with uncertainty which is to seek
41:16
understanding mm-hmm and an
41:19
understanding that transcends you it's
41:21
not just your own personal lived
41:22
experience understanding yeah because we
41:25
actually know that that can be very far
41:27
away from an understanding of how to
41:29
engage in the world that's a it's a
41:33
great thing to end on beau I know we've
41:37
gone well over we could keep talking for
41:42
a long time but any any last sort of bit
41:47
of advice or anything else you wanted to
41:48
point out any piece of advice I mean
41:57
other than what I've said already yeah
41:59
anything anything I didn't ask you I
42:04
don't have anything else to add last
42:09
question what was your favorite book as
42:10
a child uh what was my favorite book
42:14
this job they were there were a couple
42:16
but one of them was Curious George
42:17
actually I love the Curious George
42:20
perfect I love a nickname so but I love
42:26
the curious stories and the other words
42:27
where the Red Fern Grows
42:29
who is what where the Red Fern Grows oh
42:32
yeah one of my favorites too yeah sure
42:35
yeah well my dad got me Carl Sagan's
42:38
Cosmos did that just sit by the side of
42:43
your bed
42:43
I love the principle I love the figs and
42:46
Carl Sagan is an inspiration
42:48
I mean his ability to engage audiences
42:52
engage them in a meaningful way was is
42:56
just truly inspirational and was truly
42:58
inspirational so so but those three I
43:06
certainly know and I'll recommend it
43:09
again for everyone out there you are
43:10
able to engage people in an incredibly
43:13
inspirational way yourself if you
43:15
haven't seen that Cirque du Soleil TED
43:18
talk that boded on the main stage go
43:20
look at that now